COVID19

Come here to talk about topics that are not related to development, or even Kansas City.
earthling
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 7081
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: COVID19

Post by earthling »

^I've been hopping around Southeast taking care of elderly relatives and looking into regular booster shots for them too. I likely will Pfizer boost as well around 5 month mark even though healthy given caregiver mode.

User avatar
FangKC
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 15931
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: COVID19

Post by FangKC »

DColeKC wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:51 am
FangKC wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:50 pm
Vaccination doesn't prevent COVID infection. It helps the immune system recognize COVID to fight it off. In most people, vaccination results in a less serious infection, and less likelihood of death from it.

The vast majority of hospitalization and deaths now are among unvaccinated.

Vaccinated people should still wear masks when in enclosed spaces around other people. Vaccinated people can spread the DELTA variant of the virus to others. Masks reduce spread.

We need to severely slow the spread of COVID because future variants might elude the vaccine completely, and we we will be back at square one. New variants have formed, and will form, as long as so many remain unvaccinated.

Children's Mercy Hospital is at capacity.

https://www.kctv5.com/coronavirus/chil ... 676d1.html
I think there’s some misinformation here. The vaccine does prevent you from getting Covid. None of them are 100% but in several studies certain vaccines show a 90% efficacy rate in preventing Covid.
When people are infected with Delta, they carry approximately 1000 times more virus compared with previous versions of the virus, according to a recent study. All that virus can overwhelm even the strong protection from the vaccines.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2021072 ... that-means
They add that the vaccine doesn’t necessarily protect against infection. It protects against serious illness and hospitalization from COVID-19.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... r-covid-19

User avatar
DColeKC
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1333
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:50 am

Re: COVID19

Post by DColeKC »

FangKC wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:41 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:51 am
FangKC wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:50 pm
Vaccination doesn't prevent COVID infection. It helps the immune system recognize COVID to fight it off. In most people, vaccination results in a less serious infection, and less likelihood of death from it.

The vast majority of hospitalization and deaths now are among unvaccinated.

Vaccinated people should still wear masks when in enclosed spaces around other people. Vaccinated people can spread the DELTA variant of the virus to others. Masks reduce spread.

We need to severely slow the spread of COVID because future variants might elude the vaccine completely, and we we will be back at square one. New variants have formed, and will form, as long as so many remain unvaccinated.

Children's Mercy Hospital is at capacity.

https://www.kctv5.com/coronavirus/chil ... 676d1.html
I think there’s some misinformation here. The vaccine does prevent you from getting Covid. None of them are 100% but in several studies certain vaccines show a 90% efficacy rate in preventing Covid.
When people are infected with Delta, they carry approximately 1000 times more virus compared with previous versions of the virus, according to a recent study. All that virus can overwhelm even the strong protection from the vaccines.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2021072 ... that-means
They add that the vaccine doesn’t necessarily protect against infection. It protects against serious illness and hospitalization from COVID-19.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... r-covid-19
I know it's not 100% effective against preventing someone from getting it, but the vaccine does offer some prevention against contracting Covid-19. "Vaccination doesn't prevent COVID infection." isn't accurate, according to the CDC although breakthrough infections happen.

Bottom line, this doesn't stop until people who can get vaccinated.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... oknow.html

User avatar
FangKC
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 15931
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: COVID19

Post by FangKC »

The point is no one knows if they will be the one who can get infected even with a vaccine, so one has to assume one can become infected, and also transmit the virus to others, even while vaccinated. There is no way to know.

It isn't just vaccinated people with underlying conditions, or seniors, that are getting the breakthrough infections. It's Olympic athletes who are vaccinated.

earthling
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 7081
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: COVID19

Post by earthling »

DColeKC wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:08 pm
Bottom line, this doesn't stop until people who can get vaccinated.
^If the case that vax's lose significant efficacy after 5-6 months will be a bit difficult to keep the planet on top of it. Under 15% of planet is fully vaccinated, about half using Sinovac that isn't very effective against Delta. Only about 1% of people in low-income countries have received at least one dose.
Last edited by earthling on Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
DColeKC
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1333
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:50 am

Re: COVID19

Post by DColeKC »

FangKC wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:25 pm
The point is no one knows if they will be the one who can get infected even with a vaccine, so one has to assume one can become infected, and also transmit the virus to others, even while vaccinated. There is no way to know.

It isn't just vaccinated people with underlying conditions, or seniors, that are getting the breakthrough infections. It's Olympic athletes who are vaccinated.
No one should walk around acting immune to covid after being vaccinated. A few olympic athletes have tested positive out of thousands, on par with other data we have for other vaccinated people.

We gave out billions already over this, should we pay $100 to anyone who gets the vax?

This all got FUCKED from the start because we had celebrities and politicians demanding we get vaccinated instead of medical professionals. It was politicized from the start.

aknowledgeableperson
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12315
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:31 pm

Re: COVID19

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

"This all got FUCKED from the start because we had celebrities and politicians demanding we get vaccinated instead of medical professionals. It was politicized from the start."

Partially yes but it was mostly politicians making Covid and the vaccines and masks a political issue instead of just a medical issue. Our leadership at the time failed this country by downplaying the threat that Covid really is.

User avatar
DColeKC
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1333
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:50 am

Re: COVID19

Post by DColeKC »

aknowledgeableperson wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:36 pm
"This all got FUCKED from the start because we had celebrities and politicians demanding we get vaccinated instead of medical professionals. It was politicized from the start."

Partially yes but it was mostly politicians making Covid and the vaccines and masks a political issue instead of just a medical issue. Our leadership at the time failed this country by downplaying the threat that Covid really is.
Which I'm confused by because while Trump was anti-mask, he was pro-vaccine. You'd think all loyal Trump followers would have jumped on getting what Trump claimed to be a vaccine he fast tracked.

mean
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 11046
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 9:00 am
Location: Historic Northeast

Re: COVID19

Post by mean »

DColeKC wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:51 am
FangKC wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:50 pm
Vaccination doesn't prevent COVID infection. It helps the immune system recognize COVID to fight it off. In most people, vaccination results in a less serious infection, and less likelihood of death from it.

The vast majority of hospitalization and deaths now are among unvaccinated.

Vaccinated people should still wear masks when in enclosed spaces around other people. Vaccinated people can spread the DELTA variant of the virus to others. Masks reduce spread.

We need to severely slow the spread of COVID because future variants might elude the vaccine completely, and we we will be back at square one. New variants have formed, and will form, as long as so many remain unvaccinated.

Children's Mercy Hospital is at capacity.

https://www.kctv5.com/coronavirus/chil ... 676d1.html
I think there’s some misinformation here. The vaccine does prevent you from getting Covid. None of them are 100% but in several studies certain vaccines show a 90% efficacy rate in preventing Covid.
I don't think it's misinformation--which is to say, something presented as true which is not based on malicious intent--so much as a factually accurate statement made inelegantly. If you insert the word necessarily into the original statement, there's no issue. I don't think Fang would intentionally mislead anyone. The evidence is pretty clear so far, the vaccine may not prevent covid as effectively as one might like something we call a vaccine, so don't act like it does and run around without a mask when you could be infected and spreading it unintentionally. That's the message, and I think it's a valid one.

I shouldn't feel it necessary to draw a line in the sand between people saying true things that aren't necessarily as precise as one might like, and people saying the vaccine has tracking microchips that enable Bill Gates to target you with Jewish space lasers or whatever, but this is the reality we live in now.

User avatar
grovester
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4242
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:30 pm
Location: KC Metro

Re: COVID19

Post by grovester »

DColeKC wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:56 pm
aknowledgeableperson wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:36 pm
"This all got FUCKED from the start because we had celebrities and politicians demanding we get vaccinated instead of medical professionals. It was politicized from the start."

Partially yes but it was mostly politicians making Covid and the vaccines and masks a political issue instead of just a medical issue. Our leadership at the time failed this country by downplaying the threat that Covid really is.
Which I'm confused by because while Trump was anti-mask, he was pro-vaccine. You'd think all loyal Trump followers would have jumped on getting what Trump claimed to be a vaccine he fast tracked.
He wanted credit for the vaccine but not to endorse it for the general public.

His getting vaccinated in public would have been huge.

User avatar
im2kull
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3424
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: KCMO

Re: COVID19

Post by im2kull »

Why exactly is everyone SO concerned about Covid again?

It's total hypocrisy to be SO concerned about Covid, but not about any actual leading causes of death.. or... other viruses.

User avatar
DColeKC
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1333
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:50 am

Re: COVID19

Post by DColeKC »

mean wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:47 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:51 am
FangKC wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:50 pm
Vaccination doesn't prevent COVID infection. It helps the immune system recognize COVID to fight it off. In most people, vaccination results in a less serious infection, and less likelihood of death from it.

The vast majority of hospitalization and deaths now are among unvaccinated.

Vaccinated people should still wear masks when in enclosed spaces around other people. Vaccinated people can spread the DELTA variant of the virus to others. Masks reduce spread.

We need to severely slow the spread of COVID because future variants might elude the vaccine completely, and we we will be back at square one. New variants have formed, and will form, as long as so many remain unvaccinated.

Children's Mercy Hospital is at capacity.

https://www.kctv5.com/coronavirus/chil ... 676d1.html
I think there’s some misinformation here. The vaccine does prevent you from getting Covid. None of them are 100% but in several studies certain vaccines show a 90% efficacy rate in preventing Covid.
I don't think it's misinformation--which is to say, something presented as true which is not based on malicious intent--so much as a factually accurate statement made inelegantly. If you insert the word necessarily into the original statement, there's no issue. I don't think Fang would intentionally mislead anyone. The evidence is pretty clear so far, the vaccine may not prevent covid as effectively as one might like something we call a vaccine, so don't act like it does and run around without a mask when you could be infected and spreading it unintentionally. That's the message, and I think it's a valid one.

I shouldn't feel it necessary to draw a line in the sand between people saying true things that aren't necessarily as precise as one might like, and people saying the vaccine has tracking microchips that enable Bill Gates to target you with Jewish space lasers or whatever, but this is the reality we live in now.
I didn’t mean to imply Fang was purposely being misleading. Sorry Fang if that’s the way it came across.

User avatar
bones.25
Parking Garage
Parking Garage
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:34 pm

Re: COVID19

Post by bones.25 »

im2kull wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:40 pm
Why exactly is everyone SO concerned about Covid again?

It's total hypocrisy to be SO concerned about Covid, but not about any actual leaDing causes of death.. or... other viruses.
well since you asked..... it's bc it spreads like wildfire and has killed 600k+ people in the US alone. the case fatality rates of other widespread and current viruses are a fraction of what covid is. hope that answers it for you

phuqueue
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: COVID19

Post by phuqueue »

earthling wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:31 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:08 pm
Bottom line, this doesn't stop until people who can get vaccinated.
^If the case that vax's lose significant efficacy after 5-6 months will be a bit difficult to keep the planet on top of it. Under 15% of planet is fully vaccinated, about half using Sinovac that isn't very effective against Delta. Only about 1% of people in low-income countries have received at least one dose.
I'm not sure it's possible to say that the vaccine "loses significant efficacy after 5-6 months" on the basis of that Israeli data, which still show that the vaccines were apparently 91% effective at preventing "serious illness" (that is exactly what they were actually intended to do). Another study out of the UK shows two-dose Pfizer at 88% effective against "symptomatic" delta (93.7% effective against symptomatic alpha), though two-dose AZ was only 67% effective. To the extent that the Israeli data showing only 39% effectiveness at stopping transmission is valid (my understanding is that they have not published their methodology or anything, so how they arrived at their results is a little bit of a black box, and even others in the Israeli government have offered caveats about the numbers), it could be attributable to the fact that delta is so much more infectious than earlier variants, so it is more successful at infecting vaccinated people, even though it only makes vaccinated people sick at a slightly higher rate than earlier variants did. Through all of this, the vaccine itself could be continuing to provoke as effective an immune response as it ever did (in my very much not-expert opinion, this feels like the more plausible explanation than waning effectiveness, given the vaccine's ongoing success at preventing illness -- vaccines that provide sterilizing immunity are not common anyway, even though we tend to assume this is what all vaccines do).

I think this distinction between infection with the virus (SARS-CoV-2) and development of the disease (covid-19) might be where Fang and DColeKC are talking past each other a little bit. DCole is right that the vaccine remains highly effective at preventing covid, the disease, but the evidence also seems to support Fang's concern that it is less effective against delta than against earlier variants at preventing infection with SARS-CoV-2, the virus. That infection is much less likely to cause disease in a vaccinated person than in an unvaccinated person (and even some unvaccinated people also don't develop the disease -- we have been hearing about asymptomatic infections since the very beginning of the pandemic), but the virus itself is still present in, and can potentially be spread by, the infected vaccinated person.

I think the real problem is that the CDC has been dogshit on this. Their messaging has been, essentially, that the vaccine makes you all but bulletproof, instead of that it is just one piece of a broader overall harm-reduction strategy, which is why people now seem to regard anything less than total protection against even asymptomatic infection as a failure. They never should have issued the guidance that vaccinated people no longer needed to mask, and, having issued that guidance anyway, they should have rescinded it long before they did. Their decision a few months ago to simply not track breakthrough infections unless they result in hospitalization is responsible for the dearth of data in this country about how effective the vaccines actually are at preventing infection, which -- just as when Trump complained that testing was the reason for all the bad numbers -- was probably precisely their intention (some states, like Virginia, are tracking this, which is better than nothing). Anecdotally, I'm seeing people who are now regarding the pandemic as just an issue for all those Republicans who have ignorantly chosen not to vaccinate, no need to re-adopt precautions like masking because fuck them anyway, which is not only grotesque on its face but also misses the (small, but real) risk that still remains for vaccinated people themselves, as well as the larger risk for populations that cannot be vaccinated (e.g., children) or for whom the vaccine might not be effective (e.g., the immunosuppressed). So it's been an all-around terrible job by the CDC, which seems to have been weighing political calculations more heavily than public health concerns, something for which Trump and others (rightfully) caught shit, but now that Uncle Joe is the one fumbling the response, the pandemic is "over" and nobody really cares anymore. Back to brunch, everyone -- at an indoor restaurant, and no mask required if you're vaccinated!

earthling
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 7081
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: COVID19

Post by earthling »

Image
Last edited by earthling on Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:08 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
im2kull
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3424
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: KCMO

Re: COVID19

Post by im2kull »

bones.25 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:03 am
im2kull wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:40 pm
Why exactly is everyone SO concerned about Covid again?

It's total hypocrisy to be SO concerned about Covid, but not about any actual leaDing causes of death.. or... other viruses.
well since you asked..... it's bc it spreads like wildfire and has killed 600k+ people in the US alone. the case fatality rates of other widespread and current viruses are a fraction of what covid is. hope that answers it for you
You singlehandedly proved my point by completely ignoring and minimizing every greater cause of death out there.

mean
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 11046
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 9:00 am
Location: Historic Northeast

Re: COVID19

Post by mean »

Sorry, I will not tolerate covid misinformation. Go back to facebook with that shit.

User avatar
TheLastGentleman
Penntower
Penntower
Posts: 2157
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:27 pm

Re: COVID19

Post by TheLastGentleman »

Wish we had mods on this board

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

phuqueue
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: COVID19

Post by phuqueue »

It's true, nobody in the world is working on preventing or curing cancer, heart disease, obesity, or any infectious disease other than covid, or reducing car crashes and making them more survivable, or preventing gun violence, or anything else that kills people. If we really cared about death, we would have, like, tsunami warning systems, and people to put out fires, and we wouldn't have waited until 2020 to invent the entire field of "medicine," as I hear they've decided to call it, but unfortunately, we're all hypocrites singly focused on covid, which, if you think about it, is basically just the flu anyway, a thing nobody has ever lifted a finger against. Brilliant insight as always from this board's most incisive commenter, who always knows what he's talking about and never offers the stupidest take in utterly bad faith about anything.

herrfrank
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 406
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:12 pm

Re: COVID19

Post by herrfrank »

earthling wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:31 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:08 pm
Bottom line, this doesn't stop until people who can get vaccinated.
^If the case that vax's lose significant efficacy after 5-6 months will be a bit difficult to keep the planet on top of it. Under 15% of planet is fully vaccinated, about half using Sinovac that isn't very effective against Delta. Only about 1% of people in low-income countries have received at least one dose.
Which is why the species will have this new endemic virus, possibly the current virulent Covid Delta or its next worse mutation, for the next several eons of humanity. This is a tragedy for the human species of pretty substantial (once a millennium?) proportions (not a planetary calamity like melting icecaps, because this only appears to affect our species).

Post Reply