Downtown Baseball Stadium

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
User avatar
beautyfromashes
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5558
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by beautyfromashes »

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:56 am
…On top of that being the mentality of JOCO
Probably mostly this.

User avatar
WSPanic
Supporter
Posts: 3811
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by WSPanic »

Goonies wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:52 pm
Well it's settled.

Mahomes supports a downtown park so it will happen and the Royals will win multiple titles there because.... Mahomes
Whataburger Field

User avatar
Anthony_Hugo98
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:50 pm
Location: Vicenza, IT

Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

WSPanic wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:30 am
Goonies wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:52 pm
Well it's settled.

Mahomes supports a downtown park so it will happen and the Royals will win multiple titles there because.... Mahomes
Whataburger Field
I take back my previous statement, there is ONE name that wouldn’t be tacky
For all my military brothers and sisters out there, thanks for paving the way, ill do my best! AIRBORNE!

User avatar
chaglang
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3963
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals

Post by chaglang »

Locally we seem to be struggling with almost any projects that are receiving incentives in a way that we weren't 5-6 years ago. I could see anything beyond an extension of the current TSC sales tax being a real uphill fight. Public funding at that level (assuming it's on the same 25-30 year timeframe as the TSC renovations) also raises the possibility of JaCo having to pay renovate the new stadium in 20-ish years while still paying off construction costs. So all the polls I've seen asking about a stadium downtown without talking about cost are a bit suspect to me.

The easy way around this would be for the Royals to privately finance the stadium construction. But I'm not really convinced that the Royals specifically want a downtown stadium. I suspect they are smart enough to see that location as the easiest path to a larger handout from KCMO/JaCo and are proceeding accordingly. If contributing $0 of $1b means they're playing downtown, then that's what they want.
Last edited by chaglang on Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

TheSmokinPun
Strip mall
Strip mall
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:39 am
Location: Volker

Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals

Post by TheSmokinPun »

They want that stadium. I'd say my immediate friend group is a target demo: late 20s to late 30s group of mixed genders. Every single one of us would probably attend at least 25% more games if it were downtown, spending money on concessions & stuff, compared to current location. Only other way to get us out there more often as is would be to build rail.

I'm also personally the type who would often go to some Wednesday night game if secondary market was cheap, buy a beer or 2, & ride the bus home if it were downtown. Can't really do that now.

earthling
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 7083
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals

Post by earthling »

^Yeah the demographics of attendance would likely naturally change to higher % city, and less % burbs for typical weekday games (after the initial honeymoon of new stadium). Most metros with downtown stadiums have countless bar/restaurant shuttles from the burbs. KC burbs will eventually catch on to that, those who don't want to deal with parking downtown anyway. But weekday attendance would probably be relatively higher overall including for seasons with poor Royals performance.

User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 637
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: Brookside

Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals

Post by AlkaliAxel »

TheSmokinPun wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:50 am
They want that stadium. I'd say my immediate friend group is a target demo: late 20s to late 30s group of mixed genders. Every single one of us would probably attend at least 25% more games if it were downtown, spending money on concessions & stuff, compared to current location. Only other way to get us out there more often as is would be to build rail.

I'm also personally the type who would often go to some Wednesday night game if secondary market was cheap, buy a beer or 2, & ride the bus home if it were downtown. Can't really do that now.
Agreed^ I’m a bit younger than that but I’d my friends and I would do the same. Demographics will start to skew younger for Royals games and that’s a good thing. More likely than not what would happen is all the grumbling people would still go to Royals games but they’d also add all the people in the urban core who currently don’t go but now would because it’s right there.

I think this is the best way to put pressure on JoCo to embrace light rail, since they claim they hate making their way downtown. Could be a win-win.

User avatar
normalthings
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5767
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals

Post by normalthings »

earthling wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:00 am
^Yeah the demographics of attendance would likely naturally change to higher % city, and less % burbs for typical weekday games (after the initial honeymoon of new stadium). Most metros with downtown stadiums have countless bar/restaurant shuttles from the burbs. KC burbs will eventually catch on to that, those who don't want to deal with parking downtown anyway. But weekday attendance would probably be relatively higher overall including for seasons with poor Royals performance.
Suburbs might not even change. Its a 45 minute drive from OP-Kauffman for a 7pm weekday game. only 20-30 minutes to 18th Vine. Going downtown gets you closer and "faster" to Northland and much of KS suburbs

User avatar
chaglang
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3963
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals

Post by chaglang »

Really curious if there is data on this stuff from other cities who have recently built a baseball stadium in their core.

User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 637
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: Brookside

Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals

Post by AlkaliAxel »

chaglang wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:04 pm
Really curious if there is data on this stuff from other cities who have recently built a baseball stadium in their core.
Twins in Target Field started in 2010 was way up from their numbers at the Metrodome.

User avatar
chaglang
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3963
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals

Post by chaglang »

Sure, from what I've read there's always a few seasons of a new stadium bump in attendance. I'm more curious about some of the demographic shifts being suggested above.

User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 637
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: Brookside

Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals

Post by AlkaliAxel »

Sam Mellinger said on the KC Star podcast today he thinks that the Women’s soccer team will try to build a new soccer stadium downtown for the team.

User avatar
beautyfromashes
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5558
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals

Post by beautyfromashes »

AlkaliAxel wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:00 pm
Sam Mellinger said on the KC Star podcast today he thinks that the Women’s soccer team will try to build a new soccer stadium downtown for the team.
No thanks.

aknowledgeableperson
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12315
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:31 pm

Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

GRID wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:21 pm
I see another major renovation of the sports complex in the coming years. Probably an extension of the existing reno tax. And probably 1/2 to 3/4 billion in renovations for both stadiums combined.

I still think a downtown baseball stadium is a pipe dream for KC. Just way too many obstacles (money, support etc) and political/emotional issues tied to the sports complex. If KC could pull it off it would be awesome, but KC is just not a town that is going to pull off what needs to be done to build a downtown stadium. I just don't see how the city and state comes up with a billion plus dollars for a downtown park and even the bare minimal of infrastructure improvements needed. And then another billion for the Chiefs at the same time. I literally can not even comprehend something like that happening in a town that can't even keep its highest profile downtown streets well maintained.

Also, it will be a sad day for the Chiefs if they replace Arrowhead. It may have to happen someday, but they will not have that bowl with a new stadium. It will be all broken up like all the new stadiums are for ADA accessibility reasons. Also the TSC is the perfect place for a stadium, even if the Chiefs decide to build new, why in the world would they ever leave the TSC? There is zero reason to leave that location.

If they do renovate, it would be nice if they would clean up the area and spend some money improving the general area of the TSC though.

I can see KS making a major play for the Chiefs out at Village West, that will at least get something done in MO hopefully. If the pro sport teams ever move to KS, then I would have little interest in the city anymore. Sporting KC is bad enough. What a stupid location.
A lot of what you say makes sense. If the Royals get a new stadium I seriously doubt the Chiefs would be satisfied with just a rehab for their stadium. This area has treated these teams as equals in the past and both teams have treated TSC as if they are a package deal.
A billion for a new football stadium? The amount would be north of that amount, possibly 50% more than for a new baseball stadium.
Stupid location for the soccer location I definitely disagree. When you consider Johnson County being a hotbed for soccer and the stadium being just off 435 it is a good location for that market plus for many areas north of the river. And the restaurants may not be fancy but there is a wide selection of them nearby. The urbanist may not like the location but the suburbanist does. And that sentiment would also apply to TSC.

aknowledgeableperson
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12315
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:31 pm

Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

AlkaliAxel wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:08 pm

And that's not the only poll either. As I mentioned before, KSHB's twitter poll got a pretty sizable majority supporting the downtown stadium with almost 1000 votes. Eric Bunch even tweeted he was amazed by how many more open people are now to the idea than 10 years ago.
These polls are really meaningless. Who composes the population of those who responded to the poll? Are they the ones that will actually pay for the stadium? A lot of people are for a lot of things, that is until they find out how much money is leaving their pockets to pay for it.

User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 637
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: Brookside

Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals

Post by AlkaliAxel »

Soccer would do so much better downtown because most of the people who go to those games are really young. Unlike the Royals that’s not one where you can say it’s carried by suburbanites. MLS & NBA are primarily young in their demographics.

User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 637
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: Brookside

Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by AlkaliAxel »

aknowledgeableperson wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:08 pm
AlkaliAxel wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:08 pm

And that's not the only poll either. As I mentioned before, KSHB's twitter poll got a pretty sizable majority supporting the downtown stadium with almost 1000 votes. Eric Bunch even tweeted he was amazed by how many more open people are now to the idea than 10 years ago.
These polls are really meaningless. Who composes the population of those who responded to the poll? Are they the ones that will actually pay for the stadium? A lot of people are for a lot of things, that is until they find out how much money is leaving their pockets to pay for it.
You could say that same argument for any project that when tax increases come people won’t vote for them, but they always do because people prefer progress generally. I don’t know who the respondents of the poll are, but I do know that if the notion said earlier by someone was “everyone on Twitter is wildly against the downtown stadium!” but then even on Twitter it has a majority, then yeah there’s definitely a large base for this.

You also also should consider that wherever we’re at now is the floor. The nimby’s have had the microphone to dominate the campaign for years. Once the campaign starts it will only rises. So if we’re at already a 50/50 split then it’s in good shape. If JoCo doesn’t end up paying, then there’s even less to worry about.

User avatar
normalthings
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5767
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals

Post by normalthings »

beautyfromashes wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:55 pm
AlkaliAxel wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:00 pm
Sam Mellinger said on the KC Star podcast today he thinks that the Women’s soccer team will try to build a new soccer stadium downtown for the team.
No thanks.
A women’s stadium would be right size to host many other events. Concerts, college and HS teams, sit in movie nights.
Last edited by normalthings on Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
normalthings
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5767
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals

Post by normalthings »

aknowledgeableperson wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:59 am
GRID wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:21 pm
I see another major renovation of the sports complex in the coming years. Probably an extension of the existing reno tax. And probably 1/2 to 3/4 billion in renovations for both stadiums combined.

I still think a downtown baseball stadium is a pipe dream for KC. Just way too many obstacles (money, support etc) and political/emotional issues tied to the sports complex. If KC could pull it off it would be awesome, but KC is just not a town that is going to pull off what needs to be done to build a downtown stadium. I just don't see how the city and state comes up with a billion plus dollars for a downtown park and even the bare minimal of infrastructure improvements needed. And then another billion for the Chiefs at the same time. I literally can not even comprehend something like that happening in a town that can't even keep its highest profile downtown streets well maintained.

Also, it will be a sad day for the Chiefs if they replace Arrowhead. It may have to happen someday, but they will not have that bowl with a new stadium. It will be all broken up like all the new stadiums are for ADA accessibility reasons. Also the TSC is the perfect place for a stadium, even if the Chiefs decide to build new, why in the world would they ever leave the TSC? There is zero reason to leave that location.

If they do renovate, it would be nice if they would clean up the area and spend some money improving the general area of the TSC though.

I can see KS making a major play for the Chiefs out at Village West, that will at least get something done in MO hopefully. If the pro sport teams ever move to KS, then I would have little interest in the city anymore. Sporting KC is bad enough. What a stupid location.
A lot of what you say makes sense. If the Royals get a new stadium I seriously doubt the Chiefs would be satisfied with just a rehab for their stadium. This area has treated these teams as equals in the past and both teams have treated TSC as if they are a package deal.
A billion for a new football stadium? The amount would be north of that amount, possibly 50% more than for a new baseball stadium.
Stupid location for the soccer location I definitely disagree. When you consider Johnson County being a hotbed for soccer and the stadium being just off 435 it is a good location for that market plus for many areas north of the river. And the restaurants may not be fancy but there is a wide selection of them nearby. The urbanist may not like the location but the suburbanist does. And that sentiment would also apply to TSC.
TSC doesn’t work well for JoCo and much of the northland though. Downtown would be easier to get to for most people in the metro including those areas.
Last edited by normalthings on Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

herrfrank
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 407
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:12 pm

Re: Future Stadium Plans: Chiefs and Royals

Post by herrfrank »

Well by that standard, the airport doesn't work well for JoCo either. But over 50% of the O&D traffic at the airport is from JoCo. LOL

The existing sports complex is adjacent to a major highway interchange -- it really doesn't get much better than that for access. Same with the airport. The airport COULD have been built/ relocated to somewhere near I-35/ I-435/ K-10 many years ago (New Century/ Sunflower Ammunition Plant), but that didn't happen, and we have an airport that is somewhat isolated from its primary population.

But, even then, it takes at most 60 minutes to get there from anywhere in the metro because KC has such light highway traffic. Same thing is true with the Truman Sports Complex.

Unfortunately, you will never solve this "problem" in a sprawling metro.

If the stadium has to be put in the denser, central part of the city, then I would propose the Glover Plan (aka Costco).

Post Reply