18th and Vine

Discuss items in the urban core outside of Downtown as described above. Everything in the core including the east side (18th & Vine area), Northeast, Plaza, Westport, Brookside, Valentine, Waldo, 39th street, & the entire midtown area.
moderne
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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by moderne »

They are being redeveloped. I am sure it was noted elsewhere on the forum or has its own topic.

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FangKC
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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by FangKC »

That is the former water department and public works buildings across the street--on the west side of Vine. The workhouse is on the east side of Vine.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0882553 ... 84!8i8192

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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by FangKC »

Kevin Collison is reporting that developer Adam Jones will be opening a new restaurant at 1819 Vine.
Adam Jones, who’s redevelopment portfolio include the Westside and West Bottoms, is going east to the 18th & Vine District with an artsy project featuring barbecue and soul food along with a dollop of local jazz culture.

He’s renovating a small two-story building at 1819 Vine into a restaurant and night club and naming it “Ruthelle’s” after Ruthelle Winkfield, the woman who ran a hair salon for many years in the space.
...
The project is being financed by Lead Bank and the total redevelopment cost was estimated at $175,000. The schedule calls for the exterior work to be completed by year’s end and the restaurant and club opening in late spring 2022.
...
Location:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/1819+ ... -94.563038

https://cityscenekc.com/developer-bring ... ROHmZBnKI8

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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by FangKC »

Transformative projects coming to 18th & Vine
A redevelopment agreement for the historic Boone Theater in the 18th and Vine District is being discussed today during the City Council’s Neighborhood Planning and Development committee meeting at City Hall.

Plans for the Boone Theater, 1701 E 18th St., include a co-working space and an outdoor event space on vacant land to the east. The Boone Theater opened as The New Rialto Theater in 1924. Along with the Eblon, Lincoln and Gem Theaters, it served as a vital core to the commercial and entertainment center created by the African American community in the 18th and Vine District.
...
https://www.kcmo.gov/Home/Components/News/News/1710/625

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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by DaveKCMO »

Tucked in there is a plan to turn 18th Street into a pedestrian mall.

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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by Riverite »

Ooh exciting

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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by FangKC »

Bad idea. Pedestrian malls fail more times than not. The successful pedestrian malls are mostly near a university, or are in areas with high tourism, and lined with vibrant retail stores, restaurants, and bars. It's where there is ALREADY a lot of foot traffic, and that doesn't exist at 18th and Vine.

I'm not opposed to pedestrian malls in the right places, but this one would be doomed to failure. They would waste money installing one, and then also have to spend money ripping it out.

The long-term solution to 18th and Vine is to continue building dense housing around it. That plaza they keep talking about on the SE corner of 18th and Paseo is also a waste of money. There is not enou;gh street life to justify a plaza. It will be another dead space. Proposing it just shows how desperate people are to come up with ideas for 18th and Vine. It's just like that stupid idea to tear down the President Hotel and put in a linear park.

18th and Vine will never be successful until there are a lot more people living around the edges of it.

If the City puts a pedestrian mall at 18th and Vine it will demonstrate that the City is being run by fools, and it will also give more fodder to those who are constantly harping that the City wastes taxpayer dollars.

18th and Vine cannot afford more failures. Many residents already consider it a money-pit.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... trian-mall

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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by flyingember »

Induced Demand would say you're wrong. It's what is built that matters, not if it's a pedestrian mall or not.

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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

flyingember wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:00 am
Induced Demand would say you're wrong. It's what is built that matters, not if it's a pedestrian mall or not.
https://youtu.be/-Tg9IMCKa5M
Here is a pretty good video explanation on why pedestrian malls failed in the past, and he goes on to point out that most areas where cities are including them now are putting them in areas where there is already the foot traffic
For all my military brothers and sisters out there, thanks for paving the way, ill do my best! AIRBORNE!

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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by FlippantCitizen »

I'm with Fang on this one.

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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by flyingember »

The issue with the logic is being a pedestrian mall isn't the reason having one is bad any more than an unprotected bike lane is bad because it's a bike lane.

Like any piece of design it needs to work as what it is. To connect people from A to B better than an alternative or contain destinations along it people want to go to. A pedestrian mall could span streets that have nothing along them today and if there's a source of people on one end and a destination on the other and work just fine.

A great example of a pedestrian mall is Main St in the 300 and 400 blocks next to the city market. That no one used it as an example of how bad they are shows how people forgot about good ones. Google Street View from March 2020 shows cars in it, probably vendor's

Regionally, another pedestrian mall is The Legends. Sure, it was built that way from scratch but that's what is is.

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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by FangKC »

It will never work at 18th and Vine in its' present state. The elements that make pedestrian malls successful are being near a university, or already a tourist destination with a lot of foot traffic. None of these elements exist there. There is not enough population density to create demand for existing retail spaces now. That is because there are not enough dense blocks of apartments. So, if you don't even have those things in place now, how can a pedestrian mall work?

What it shows is that the people proposing it simply don't know what they are doing. They have not studied the issue and know little about urbanism or creating urban spaces.

The money building a pedestrian mall would be much better spent restoring the historic buildings that remain.

The stupidity with 18th and Vine goes back decades, and apparently still continues. The City should turn the remaining historic buildings over to those guys renovating the Water and Street Department buildings on Vine. At least they know how to rescue a building without a roof. I would bet anyone on this forum those guys would produce a finished product long before the City and anyone associated with 18th and Vine.

One of the prime assets in the District is the Gem Theater, and it sits empty and unused most of the time. It should have someone programming it. Things like this create some street life, and people who eat dinner and have drinks at neighboring establishments.

The City has been a horrible property owner of those buildings. Those buildings have simply been left to rot. The City has no business fining any private property owner for code violations when the City itself is among the worst examples of it.

One of the primary mistakes made was building all those new buildings BEFORE they restored the historic ones that still remain undeveloped.

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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by FangKC »

The Business Journal of Kansas City is reporting that the City has approved a development agreement for the historic Boone Theater at 18th and Highland.

Historic Boone Theater will see encore performance at 18th & Vine
...City Council members on Thursday approved a development agreement with Vine Street Collaborative LLC that will see the 99-year-old theater at 1701 E. 18th St. rehabilitated with coworking space, next to outdoor entertainment and event space on vacant land to its east — a $6.8 million total investment.
...
The outdoor lot next to the historic theater is eyed for a pocket park with flexible recreation spaces and food trucks. In the long term, the lot also has the potential for an infill mixed-use multifamily development, Duggan said during the committee meeting.
...
The agreement calls for the property's sale once pre-transfer activities are completed and within 180 days of securing supplemental financing.

Kansas City intends to support a 25-year property tax abatement — up to 10 years at 100% and then 15 years at 50% — for the initial Boone Theater redevelopment. The project is exempt from the city's standard lower incentive caps because it is in a continually distressed census tract and in the East Side Investment Zone.

Other project funding sources are slated to come from historic and New Markets tax credits, plus a Community Investment Trust (CIT) for which equity2 and AltCap already have made commitments, Duggan said.
...
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... reuse.html

Location:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0911975 ... 384!8i8192

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Re: 18th and Vine

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...
The outdoor lot next to the historic theater is eyed for a pocket park with flexible recreation spaces and food trucks. In the long term, the lot also has the potential for an infill mixed-use multifamily development, Duggan said during the committee meeting.
...
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0911975 ... 384!8i8192

Why is the solution for everything a pocket park?

There is a pocket park already in existence across Highland from the Boone Theater that sits next to the Gem Theater. Do all theater renovations require a pocket park next to them? Especially when there are park/plaza spaces already existing behind the Jazz and Negro Leagues baseball museums.

In the "long term?" How about now? Separate that parcel out from the theater and bid it out to a developer. Put two retail spaces at ground level and a few apartments above.

You want to create more traffic in the 18th and Vine District? Put buildings on parcels. Get rid of the pocket park next to the Gem Theater and put a business there Don't build that stupid "plaza" on the SW corner of 18th and Paseo. Place buildings there. That is a prominent corner and it deserves a prominent building. You can't have activity in a district full of vacant parcels and pocket parks.

Brinshore is done with their developments on Independence Avenue and Paseo and 8th. Let them building something.

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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by TheLastGentleman »

FangKC wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:18 pm
Why is the solution for everything a pocket park?
Because the ideal for architecture and urban planning is still for every building to be sitting in a lawn. Remember, this is still the densest proposal we've seen for redeveloping the north loop, an area which was historically jam packed with buildings.

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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by dukuboy1 »

This area will need to develop to the West to link into Crossroads at the same time Crossroads develops further East. Housing, business and some additional entertainment venues would all be great to help

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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by FangKC »

It appears KCATA is seeking RFPs for several parcels they own along the 18th Street corridor.

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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by chaglang »

TheLastGentleman wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:31 pm
Because the ideal for architecture and urban planning is still for every building to be sitting in a lawn.
That's an impossibly broad statement.

People like outdoor space. That's why it keeps showing up.

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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by normalthings »

FangKC wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:20 am
It appears KCATA is seeking RFPs for several parcels they own along the 18th Street corridor.
Source?

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Re: 18th and Vine

Post by FangKC »

normalthings wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:55 pm
FangKC wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:20 am
It appears KCATA is seeking RFPs for several parcels they own along the 18th Street corridor.
Source?
I think I meant the City would be seeking RFPs, and had in my mind this quote about KCATA.
...
The potential relocation of the KCATA offices from its current address at 1200 E. 18th St. is part of a larger strategic real estate plan by the agency, under the direction of Robbie Makinen, president and CEO.

The agency controls approximately 18 acres along East 18th Street including its offices, maintenance barn and vacant land. It’s located between the East Crossroads and 18th & Vine District.

Makinen has said he’d like to make it to make it available for other long-term development.
...
https://cityscenekc.com/kcata-seeks-dev ... krvf8Oy8iY

The City is also putting out RFPs for parcels they own.

City-Owned Property Redevelopment:

18th and Garfield (2010 E. 18th Street) - The City has received multiple inquiries from potential developers for this property and plans to issue an RFP soon.
18th & Lydia and 3 parcels along 18th Street (1819 and 1831 Lydia; 1801 Grove; 1800-1802 Paseo) - The City has issued an RFP for new residential and/or commercial or mixed-use construction and is reviewing responses.
18th & Agnes - The City has issued an RFP for new residential and/or commercial or mixed-use construction and is reviewing responses for this as well.

https://www.kcmo.gov/Home/Components/News/News/1710/625

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