https://bahua.com/a/qnPs All responses and updates to "Kansas City's Smokiest Bars" Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:00:30 -0600 en-us https://bahua.com/a/qnPs
I agree with that statement, but now that the ban has passed, I don't see what the big deal is with walking 10 steps outside and smoking til one's heart is content. People are still free to smoke at any time, just not any where.

If your business is dependent upon smoke floating in the air, then I suggest you find a new business...or rent a fog machine.

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i also think this issue has absolutely nothing to do with freedom, and i am a freedom-loving kind of guy.

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Also, with regard to the bars closing...i doubt it. The bars here in Mass just ask people to step outside, it doesn't appear to be a big deal. Sure, if they had a roofdeck or outside seating it would be ideal, but most don't, and as far as i can tell, smokers still patronize establishments.

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You don't have to go home smelling like smoke. Who says you have to go to a smoky bar? What requirement is there for you to go? Smoke is not some hidden danger. It's obvious, right in front of you, and easily avoidable.

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This argument always gets turned back to the patrons of a bar but we have banned smoking in pretty much every other workplace. Why are the workers of bars exempt from working in a smoke-free environment?

I don't disagree with the civil liberties aspect but I think a much more dangerous trend is banning trans-fats in cities, which mine has done. In that case, truly ANYONE can choose whether or not to partake in the "bad" deed.

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The trans-fat bans are currently the cutting edge of idiocy, in my opinion.

]]> Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:44:13 -0600 https://bahua.com/a/qnPs
why is it so troubling when the workplace being regulated is a bar or restaurant but it is (presumably) not troubling in other workplaces and places of public accommodation - city transit, offices, airplanes, hospitals, courthouses, other govt buildings, etc? is it because there is a cultural "preference" by smokers and libertarians that the govt cannot invade where we choose to spend our public leisure time? why should those preferences be given precedence over the preferences/concerns regarding workplace pollution?

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Governments also regulate the presence of asbestos in public and private places, because it has been determined to be a public health hazard. Do you question whether laws prohibiting asbestos to be hanging from the ceiling of a pub are a good idea? I think a big part of the question here is whether second-hand smoke is a public health hazard. The prevailing research is that it is a hazard, but I'll concede that it's not as firmly established as the case against asbestos. Still, there's not much serious contention on the issue.

If that's the case, it's not a matter of people's choice to work among smoke. It's a public health hazard and no one should have to put up with it.

Also, the coal miner comparison is pretty flawed in my opinion. Ask a coal miner if that's their preferred career (with the risks of gas leaks, fires, collapses, etc.), and you'll probably find out that they'd rather be doing lots of other things. Unfortunately, people don't have complete freedom in their choice of jobs, and people like bartenders and servers can't always pick and choose their job either.

Second-hand smoke in the workplace has been pretty well established to be an unreasonable danger. No one should have to deal with it at all. That's why these laws are being passed all around the country.

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